Which cities do you think have the best underground systems and why? And how often do you use them?

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I am not the worldwide specialist, but I was VERY impressed in Moscow:

Clean, marble floors and walls, abundance of luxurious chandeliers, great! And the acceleration of the trains is unbelievably fast.

So I'd opt for Moscow. Definitely not: New York.

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for all its faults, London Underground takes beating. The Docklands Light Railway is good too: my Grandson loved sitting in the front without a driver!

Pat

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I agree with you Pat, London does take some beating. Other good examples are Paris, Hong Kong, Singapore and Dubai.

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London for, in spite of its problems, the sheer scale of the network and the huge volume of passengers it carries everyday, as well as clear signage and navigation and improving proactive passenger communication.

New York falls far short with mainly inaudible driver announcements, dark uninviting stations, and poor signage (only very recently have they introduced countdown clocks in stations!).

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I think Madrid has an exceptional Metro system. Relatively state of the art trains, clear annoucements, comfortable seating and clean stations.

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While the MRT system in Singapore is neither very pretty nor especially extensive, it does what it is meant to well:
-very reliable
-stations generally where you need them
-inexpensive
-fast
-comfortable (even in rush-hour the crush does not reach LU Met Line levels)

Other than that, I like the flashy Dubai Metro quite a lot, though knowing everything in the UAE is powered by oil in one way or another makes me feel a bit guilty.

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Definitely NOT the Tube (London underground) its the pits how many of you have to use it every day?!?!?!?... yuk!!!

Listen to this it will explain how all regular commuters feel!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UymKurTBdhw

I hear Beijing and Tokyo are very good but have never used used them myself

xxx

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I believe the best metro system in the world is the Hong Kong MTR because it actually carries a huge number of people within a low catchment area. The system is amazingly clean, precise and on time. The MTR's standards in general are very high.It is very efficient and Hong Kong is really a testimony to what the meaning of public transport is because 90% of daily journeys are made by public transport there.

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Seoul has a very impressive subway system.

Easy to use, with announcements in both Korean and English.

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Ditto Becky.
The London Underground in the summer is murder and a national embarrassment. Where else in the world do the operators advise you carry plenty of water so not to pass out in heat. One place hit 39c this summer!
Granted, the network is great, but the experience in summer leaves a bitter taste in my parched mouth.

Nice to see the new London Routemaster bus unveiled today and goodbye to the junction-clogging, fare-dodging, 'self-combusting' bendy-bus!

http://travel.aol.co.uk/2011/12/17/boris-unveils-londons-new-hop-on-hop-off-bus/

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New York smells bad, is nasty but runs 24 hours beats traffic in rush hours and is sensibly priced unlike London Underground which is a rip off and closes too early to use on a night out.
My vote though would be Tokyo where the trains run to the minute and like the subway it has express and local trains.

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London Underground will be much improved once the new air conditioned trains roll out more widely:

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/better-late-than-never--londons-tube-gets-aircon-2047868.html

The new tube lines and stations already planned with further improve the network.

I've travelled on plenty of metros, but for speed, comfort (those nice sprung cloth seats - luxury!), relative cost-effectiveness and network the tube takes some beating.

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I think the Hong King Metro is no. 1, then the DLR, but not the London Underground, though I love the maps! Not strictly a metro, but the Gauteng train from JNB is incredible for speed and ease of use.

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I would say:

- the Delhi metro (in particular, it links the satellite, but highly developed and popular residential, town of Gurgaon to New Delhi proper very well and avoids the heavy and unpredictable Delhi traffic).

- and I have always found the Paris and Madrid metro systems very easy and cost-effective to use, especially when moving round the city centres.

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Hello Hengli123

I would have totally agreed with your comments on the Singapore MRT until I read The Straits Times this weekend.

There are many reports about how the MRT is failing Singaporeans right now. Historically this newish system has been more or less faultless but as it comes of age the MRT is seeing the sort of problems which mature transit systems in Europe experience.

The difference is that whereas we in Europe know what to do when things go wrong, our Singaporean counterparts do not.

There have been a number of breakdowns and system failures recently on the Singapore MRT which have made headline news, day after day, in the local media.

The result has been chaos and confusion because passengers and staff simply didn't know what to do.

Now analysts are telling the MRT management they must polish up their act and learn from the operators of transit systems elsewhere.

Readers contemplating a trip on the MRT should bear this in mind.

http://www.straitstimes.com/The-Big-Story/The-Big-Story-3/Story/STIStory_746310.html

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"cost-effectiveness" oh please! Vintage krug are you going mad again... nurse, nurse NUUURRRSSEEE!!!!! ..lol just teasing sweet pea, granted they can be comforatble if you ever get a seat! ;) xxxxx

The LT staff both tube and buses for that matter are absolute muppets, holding the hold network to ransom during the the olympics for more money.. they make the so called 'mentalists" of a certain airlines staff assocication like absolute saints in comparrison. Why cant they use driverless trains like those on the DLR????

lets sing, all together now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=UymKurTBdhw

xxx

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I am afraid posts from certain posters are incredibly predictable. For anyone who is a frequent traveller I cannot believe anyone would prefer the over priced, over crowded London Underground. It is amazing air con is a novelty in the 2010's. What happened to express
Services on the District, pullman cars on Metropolitan etc?
When it began London led the world. Interesting they brought over an American to run it ( which is why there are so many Americanisms in use to this day.

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The point is you have to compare like with like. For all its faults The London Underground system does a very effective job at carrying millions of people in a very densly populated city across a relatively large network of lines and stations. There are about 3.5m journeys every day in Zones 1-2 alone.

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I would rate a subway as a rider not as a management consultant. Interesting how little response there has been on how often you ride. Tokyo is the only one I ride often. I guess NY now and again and London hardly ever. District and metropolitan not too bad but i find the tube lines (northern, piccadilly etc) very claustrophobic.
Anyone know if there is any truth to the Moscow subway having a secondary system below built for party officials. Nice subway but the escalators are so steep!

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I have to agree with Hippocampus, the tube does a very good job and that is rating it as a rider. How often do you ride the Tokyo stsyem Rich?

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On average I am in Tokyo around 5-6 weeks a year in total and I use subway for most trips. I use NEX and connect at Shinagawa from NRT and for virtually all trips I use subway ( to be strictly accurate I use public rail as Tokyo has an integrated system with Subway and regular commuter rail. Japan is one place where I do not resent using public transport. There is some support for english but it helps a lot to have some japanese. Pasmo and suica work very well too for ticketing. First time you use local ticket machines is fun!
Other neat stuff is you can pay by waving japanese cellphone over gate and each station plays a different tune to help blind idnetify station.

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Lugano Pirate. I agree with your comment on Gauteng - JNB. except for the lack of trolleys at the ariport and the fact that those that are available on the platform will not go through the ticket barrier

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whilst i'm a big fan of the tokyo rail system
The is a big diffrence to me from riding jr and riding the subway during the morning rush hour

the subway is as uncomfortubly crowded as it gets but i rearly have
felt the same way on the jr lines in and around the city

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In the UK, one of the best is the Tyne and Wear Metro. In Europe, my choice would be Budapest. And my worlwide top spot would go to Hong Kong.

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Since when did Business traveller allow such blatant advertising nothing to do with the topic converned.

I suggest that Partick7878 goes 'UNDERGROUND'

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Donkeyasia, I think it's some Nigerian scam by the looks of it.

On your point re JNB, you're right about the trolleys, but I use a small carry on with wheels so I can avoid them. Nonetheless it's something the authorities should look at.

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On reflection, perhaps they did look at it and we're worried about all the airport trolleys ending up in Pretoria and Sandton!

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LP - perhpas they should ad a 'trolley' bus service to compliment the gauteng rail service.

seriously, Hong Kong is the most consisetne for timing, flexibility, pricing, interchanges and routings

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In this day and age lthe question should be do the world Metropolises have a fully intergrated transit system....and encourages people to ditch cars ideally through cheapness /value/ and total ease of use

On that criteria, my top 5 are ,,,,

1) Hong Kong --the MTR compliments the ferries /buses etc thanks to the Octopus card
2) Vancouver -- $3 ticket can get me from a fishing village near the airport to the top Grouse mountain seamlessly using 2 busses /train/ & seabus
3) Don't knock whats on your doorstep TFL does a wonderful job mostly and the Tube is underated
4) Madrid --are they still charging pesotos
5) Toronto -- ease of use--although its been an age

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We are in the process of compiling our list of 10 top metros and would like to thank everyone who has contributed their views so far. At the moment, our shortlist includes:

London
Madrid
Tokyo
Hong Kong
Moscow
Dubai
Shanghai
Delhi
Stockholm
Mexico City

But we are also considering:

Paris
New York
Naples
Chicago
Copenhagen
Taipei
Sao Paulo
Seoul
Budapest
Singapore
Beijing

Which ones would you say definitely "yes" to and definitely "no" to? Any why?

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Yes to London:

Sheer scale of the operation, Ease of use.

Maybe to Paris:

Ease of use, good quality rolling stock, but the stations are increasingly used by homeless souls as shelter.

No to New York:

Access through automated barriers when carrying bags (even normal shopping) can be problematic.

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My favourites would be:

UK - Tyne and Wear Metro
Europe - Munich, followed by Paris
US - Chicago's L
WW - Shanghai, followed by HK

I love the Underground too but while it excels operationally, the cost to ride it - even with an Oyster card - is shocking. I have never been more embarassed than the time a US friend only wanted to ride 2 stations and had to pay in excess of £4 in cash for the privilege.

And yes, I ride all these systems regularly.

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I don't think you can consider Dubai and London in the same breath. Dubai is 2 lines, brand new etc in a city where money is no object. London is numerous lines and working with Victorian infrastructure and tight monetary constraints.

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Hong kong should be shortlisted

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Surprised that San Francisco isn't included!

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Would have to agree, that San Francisco's is very good - especially that they run on and under the street ... unique design, I believe.

As I've said on Twitter, Paris was and is a nightmare to use. Awful signage.

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For all of the subways I have traveled on, my vote is for Moscow. I like the tube in London and Washington DC is very nice, but Moscows beauty is amazing.

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The ones listed reflect exposure. Copenhagen's new metro is very efficient and modern, but less go there. Vienna's is rather impressive as well.

Beijing is severely overcrowded.
For sheer majesty Moscow is hard to beat, although Pyongyang's for what is seen of it, isn't much different.

Some measures need to be developed to do any sort of analysis. If it is about frequency, connectivity, cleanliness, signage and comfort you'll get different measures. Hong Kong is remarkable, but not comfortable for longer trips. London's is comfortable and well signposted, but very haphazard for connections as it is such an old system. From my experience all US systems are rather grotty.

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moscow is very ornate but the last time i was there , there was no signage in english and trying to make sense of thier alpabet isnt as easy as it might seem

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Comfort, coverage, and consistency are the three critical criteria in my opinion. With that in mind, Santiago Chile, Sydney Australia, Singapore, and Athens Greece rank at the top. If we were not discriminating against trams I would include Melbourne as #1 with Amsterdam at #2 although Melbourne has an unfair weather advantage. If one knows how to use train/tram combos then Brussels is among the leaders and HK deserves recognition. Talk of San Francisco BART is out of context in this forum. BART is only useful for commuting between SF and suburbs. I know a little about that since I am an expatriated native of SF. When in SF take the bus or hoof it. Its a coolly concentrated city.

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A good thread. Interesting to see what different people consider makes a system "the best metro in the world". Is it price - some are dirt cheap, London's notoriously isn't. Is it convenience - the Paris metro has a density of coverage which is truly impressive (in the central district one is seldom more than 500 metres from a station). Is it ease of use and clarity of maps - rules out New York straight away. Is it impressive stations - Moscow's gets many votes here (though not if one goes to the suburbs). Is it "visitor-friendliness" - Singapore's is good here, as is Santiago's in Chile.

The point is, any one of these could be the determinant, and different people have different yardsticks. But only one system pioneered building railways underground (and then building deep underground), only one system gave the world the word metro (and no, it was not Paris), only one system invented the topograhical map, only one system designed a logo which is recognised all round the world.

And only one system defines its city even for that city's own citizens. If a station is on the underground map, most Londoners will have a fair idea where it is; but a part of London without an underground station (Catford, anyone?) might just as well for most Londoners not exist.

The London Underground may not be the world's best. But it is surely the one that every other metro system is measured against.

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It's obvious the majority of replies come from UK based travellers. To imagine for one minute that the London underground is in any way in the top 100 of metro systems in the world is just patriotism taken to the limit. Dirty, overpriced, crowded (with all those early morning poms), give me a break.

Try Seoul as the model of what a metro should be. On time, clean, airconditioned, every 2 minutes here comes another one, vast network, english signage and announcements, and not at all expensive.

The London underground? Mad dogs and Englishmen ...

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There is no competition for the Copenhagen Metro; it is clean, driverless, and runs around the clock, all day - every day (even on Christmas eve and morning etc.) It runs to and from the airport in 12 minutes from the city centre - every 3 minutes. While it's not the world's most comprehensive system, this is just the best metro out there

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OzTraveller - yes of course you are right. This forum has a majority of UK contributors, as you can see whenever British Airways is discussed.

I have also travelled on Seoul's underground system. It is magnificent, efficient, cheap ... and totally forgettable. It works, but it does not last in the memory.

The London Underground is everything that Seoul's is not (including 100 years older, which is much of the point). It is dirty, expensive, complicated, crowded, and prone to breakdowns. It also dominates and defines its city like no other metro system does (though the New York subway comes close). It arouses fierce passions both for it and indeed against it.

That is why much of this thread is about the London system not the Seoul system or any number of other systems which are technically better. Given the title of the thread, your comment (and implied frustration with the Brits) is entirely fair. But London's Underground remains the daddy of all metro systems.

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London Underground being the system other underground systems are being measured against?? This is hardly the truth in this day and age...dirty, no A/C - plenty of coverage gaps in Greater London (I've lived in London for 6 years, so I know what I'm talking about).

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As someone who visits London frequently, and stays in Brentford (not near an Underground) it amazes me that Londoners moan and groan about how c**p it is..

As i mentioned in an earlier post, its the bigger picture that matters how all the transit systems intergrate and TFL do this magnificently

My priority is to get to the nearest Underground station (Gunnersbury) and then the world ,or rather London becomes your Oyster !!!

I have been on better, more modern systems but London definately does not deserve the loathing it recieves

and the posts about the iconic map are spot on!!

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My dear Cedric_Statherby, Sir. The London underground remains in one's memory purely because it is so bad. That you consider it the "daddy of all metro systems" frankly, leaves me breathless, similar to the feeling I have on the Piccadilly Line at 8am on a Monday morning .. A little like British Airways actually. Tired, worn out, living in the past .. Overtaken by the younger, forward thinking, energetic operators from the Mid East and Asia .. When will the Brits realise they no longer rule the waves .. or the metro's .. or the airlines ..

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Tokyo & Madrid definately

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Is it also worth considering the value of a cities Metro system to the that city ,not by our opiions as possible frequent visitors but not inhabitants of that city but how much as a percentage of that cities population rely on their Metro system

I mention this because although I highly rate both the Vancouver and Hong Kong systems I do not use them as a neccasity when visiting---In the case of Hong Kong the DB ferry is far more important and impressive to my daily life than the MTR!!

If you could physically remove a system from any of those cities how detrimental to daily life would it be for that cities citizens?

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And i'll cite Bangkok as a classic example......

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I like the Bangkok Metro and with their interface with the Skytrai and Airport link........dee mak...great...remember the hassle of 30 years ago.

Only trouble is that unlike LT -TFL they wont accept my Freedom Pass... I dont know whyyyy..
so in that respect I would suggest that the Piccadilly line is No.1

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OzTraveller

Once again, you are of course Right - though I defend the use of the phrase daddy of them all. Unless you prefer Grandad? The system celebrates its 150th birthday next year, was visionary before Australia existed and remains iconic.

But to be the daddy says nothing about being the best. On this I do not argue with any of your adjectives; in fact I made a point of listing many of them in my first post. However, I stick to my point that the London Underground defines its city as no other system does. Can you imagine travelling around London without it? The city simply would not work.

As for Brits ruling the waves etc, can't think why you colonials always bring it up - we dropped it years ago, and if you read my posts I quite clearly do not claim London's metro is the best. But I hold to my main point, which is that in terms of contribution to the life of its city, the London Underground has few peers.

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Despite the dirt, the near total lack of A/C, and the occassional guy peeing on the platform, the Paris Metro is amazing. There are so many stations with very regular service. Combined with the express services offered by the RER and the connections to the main line stations, there is nothing better. I use is everyday! The London Underground is good but the stations are way too far apart, it's too expensive, and I can barely stand up in half the trains.

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The post by Cedric was a reality check for me. I had failed to mention it in my post. However I know London well and simply consider the Underground part and parcel of London. The subways in Santiago Athens, and Singapore are quite good relative to the respective countries' overall infrastructure. But all those countries could easily survive without their subways. I'm not so sure about London. And that is not a London weakness. It is only a sign of how closely woven the underground is with the overall fabric of London life.

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Opened on 14 December 1896, the third-oldest underground metro system in the world after the London Underground and the Budapest.network..is...... Glasgow ........true adventure,,,fyio

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http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-olympics/article-24028757-derisory-pound-100-games-pay-offer-rejected-by-tube-staff.do

joy, i take it LU is still in the running for this award xx

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Copenhagen metro has been voted the best metro in the world in 2008-2009-2010 by international MetroRail. In 2011 it had 98.8% departures on time - one of the highest in the world.
Its nice, clean, safe and fast. The network is still small but they are expanding.
I vote for Copenhagen.

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I'm surprised I have not seen comments about the Berlin Subway.

Any feeling about it? What is it like since the "wall" came down?

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The Glasgow "Shoogle" or "shuggle" is a dead brill. The smell is also unique...and not nearly as unpleasent as you might tink.

I also have a fondness for Singapore and HKG as they simply work.

The London Tube is impressive is that it moves so many people each day and despite the appallingness of each and ever journey people still part with huge sums of money to be treated in this way.

There is nought as "queer as folk"

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hun the only reason people still part with money is because we have no other choice!!! My boss has his own parking spot but he rarely ever uses it because it takes him ages to drive 3 miles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=UymKurTBdhw

xx

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Slightly off the beaten track but would certainly be worth a look for consideration

..Phyongyang Metro.

http://www.tbd.com/blogs/tbd-on-foot/2011/12/inside-north-korea-s-colorful-strange-pyongyang-metro-and-traffic-13988.html

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Singapore. Clean, safe, quiet, best ride you'll ever have on a metro. When in Singapore I always use the MRT to get anywher in the city.

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I am intrigued by the use of the French term Metro on this thread, so I did some research on the options.
Metro - a metropolitan transport system. In London the Metropolitan Line is the one that runs furthest away from the metropolis.
Subway - an underground transport system, yet the New York subway, one of the best known has many parts of its tracks that are not underground.
Undergorund - an underground transport system. Same as NY London has large areas of District, Metropolitan and other lines which are not underground.
Rapid TRansit - A fast transport system. Varies around the world and depends on your view of rapid. BART in SF is very good out of the city but downtown not very rapid.
Then we have the linguistic side where many Europeans and non English speaking countries adopted the Metro term from France who now also have the RER, the Germans go for U or S Bahn, the British chose Undergound and the US went for Subway.

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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Vienna, or some of the German cities. Vienna may not be the best in the world, but its got to be up there. Reasonably priced, clean, frequent and fairly extensive. Oh, and its well integrated with the rest of the public transport system (trains, busses and trams - lots of them). This is just one of the reasons Vienna is normally one of the world's top three cities to live in.

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RichHI1
Interesting.

You did not mention the extended use, about the London Underground, of the term "The Tube" - quite unique I believe.
It initially referred to the first deep level tube railway being constructed and opened in December 1890 - "The City and South London Railway"(now part of the Northern Line).
All the lines before this were constructed using the "cut and cover" method, while the C&SLR was tunneled through the ground, necessitating the use of lifts between ground level and the platforms.

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Yes I stayed with official terms whereas Tube is colloquial. I am still unclear whether tube applies ot all the underground or only the bored tunnels such as Northern Bakerloo and Piccadilly. Are District, Metropolitan and Circle the tube too?

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Rich, the Tube is the Tube no matter which line you are on. It makes no difference whether its bored or cut and shut.

In New York Subway is refered to the above ground operations as well and also the Metro in Paris. The RER is not Metro in the sense of the Metro network.

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Tube is just an easy expression to describe the whole London subway network which actually comprises the DLR-Docklands Light Railway,London Overground ( the old North London line..now revamped) and of course the mainstay the actual "Underground",

This was origionally put together by various private companys(went all bust) modernised and updated by the American entrepreneur Charles Tyson Yerkes and finally nationalised in 1948.

Anyway ref Metros; Quite like Amsterdams.

Line No 5 is still being built but city has a very well co-ordinated/ integrated transport network as anyone who arrives at Schipol would no doubt atest.

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What about the Waterloo and CIty Line.? IS htta now part of Transport for London or is owned by SWTrains?

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Rich honestley who cares ether way its still rubbish and dont event think about getting me started on SWT! :( xx

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Terry, Tube refers only to the Underground network, not DLR and LUL. What are you refering to that was put together by private companies that went bust?

Rich, the Waterloo and City is operated by TfL, it was part of British Rail and operated under the Network SouthEast banner, but nothing to do with SWT

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This is all very interesting, (especialy Becky on SWT). I guess the variety of uses for the terms and the difference between what people mean by them shows the lack of coordinated transport policy across the globe (exceptiosn in some cities like Tokyo and I belive the Germans make quite a show at it.

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It would be difficult to have a co-ordinated transport policy across the world because what might work in one country/city may not in another. There are also different political factors to take account as well and how people view the use of public transport. As you say Rich its all very interesting.

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Sorry poor writing. I meant a coordinated policy in an individual city looked at from a worldwide perspective rather than a worldwide coordinated approach.

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Rich dont tell me you are a fan of SWT? " coordinated policy in an individual city looked at from a worldwide perspective rather than a worldwide coordinated approach" sounds expensive xx

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Not quite sure what you are saying Rich. Becky I'm with you, I'm not a fan of SWT either.

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NTarrant thought I meant a coordinated transport policy globally whereas what I meant was a coordinated policy by city across the globe. My wish is that countries and cities will move towards a situation where air, long distance rail and urban transport are integrated so relying on public transport is no longer purgatory.

As an aside SWTrains have wrecked our service which is 10 minutes slower now than it was in the 1960's, no longer has first class or toilets and stops at every halt on the line. My real hatred though is for First Capital Connect who cheated me out of a first class fare and then lied about the rolling stock they provided. SWT may be rubbish but I believe them to be honest and have respectable business practices at the least.

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I see what you mean Rich, unfortuately the problems are that not all travellers are connecting with other transport modes.

Whilst I am not a fan of SWT for a number of issues, they have slowed down services on most routes because of reliability. It does work in that it is great to arrive at Waterloo a couple of minutes early or on time rather than consistantly late. You must be on SWT's suburban network if there is no first class.

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I would have agreed with "rrtsalzer" re the Singapore MRT. But a series of breakdowns late last year are of concern, particularly as MRT staff lacked the experience to sort the problems out in a timely fashion. How would they cope in a serious emergency, I wonder ?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/19/uk-singapore-smrt-idUSLNE7BI00T20111219

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The Tokyo Metro is wonderful: clean, cheap and easy to use. And safe! And it's earthquake proof: I was in Tokyo during last year's earthquake and tsunami and the Metro had to shut down for the evening but the next morning (Saturday) everything was business as usual there, without any delays! Great!

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Rich..
The Metropolitan line, being the first underground railway in the world, had a major influence on underground railways worldwide that the Paris Métro took its name,in full Chemin de fer Métropolitain, from the good old ....Metropolitan line.

The modern word Metro is derived from the word Metropolitan..mais oui..

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Was talking with my Wife on Thursday why the Budapest Metró is called Metro after the french one also its a lot older than the French one as it being the 2nd one in Europe or even the world (Europe for sure), after London.

So the Budapest Metró must be named after the the Metropolitan line and so the Paris Metro must be named after the Budapest Metró following the short form from that was taken from the Metropolitan line.

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Madrid for its speed, reliability, breadth, cleanliness and connectivity to airport. Beijing and Hong Kong also have good metro systems but Madrid stands alone.

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If there can only be one the best subway it has to be a mix of Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong and Rotterdam subways........a perfect blend!!

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London 1st,Budapest 2nd and Glasgow 3rd...

The Glasgow Subway is an underground metro line in Glasgow, Scotland. Opened on 14 December 1896, it is the third-oldest underground metro system in the world after the London Underground and the Budapest Metro
.
It was so called when taken over by the Corporation who renamed it the Glasgow Underground in 1936. Despite this rebranding, many Glaswegians resolutely continued to refer to the network as "the Subway".

However,,,,,,,

The system is NOT the oldest underground railway in Glasgow; that distinction belongs to a 5 km (3.1 mi) section of the Glasgow City and District Railway opened in 1863, now part of the North Clyde Line of the suburban railway network, which runs in a sub-surface tunnel under the city centre between High Street and west of Charing Cross.

1863 same year as the Circle & Ham started in London...
Wonder..... what month?

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The Metropolitan Railway (now part of the Hammersmith & City line of the London Underground) opened from Paddington Bishop´s Rd. to Farringdon Street on 10th January 1863.

Paddington Bishop´s Road, name changed to Paddington 10/09/33
Farringdon Street, name changed to Farringdon & High Holborn 26/01/22
Farringdon & High Holborn, name changed to Farringdon 21/04/36

82 years later - in 2018 - Farringdon is expected to be the major transport interchange in London where the original Underground system meets the intersection of the Thameslink and Crossrail cross London National Rail lines 155 years after its initial opening.

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Very interesting and informative thread here as I am learning about the metro systems around the world and it makes my usage of these services more meaningful.

More info and history please!

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@ FlyingChinaman

Take a look at:
http://www.urbanrail.net/

Bill in Hants

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Bill in Hants: Very good metro rail site!

I got a better and bigger Buenos Aires metro rail network map from this link then the BA metro site!!!

Thanks you for showing me this as I am sure I shall use this web info every week in different countries!

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I have a little gripe to add to this thread in relation to what makes a good "Metro"

Did think Madrid was an excellent choice, also I am an Underground fan.............

However, having just returned from a romantic weekend away in Madrid I am going to downgrade both "the tube and Madrids Metro" because much to my surprise when me and my lass decided to call it an early night at the back of 12 ( relatively very early fo a night out in Madrid ) we found the system shut down for 1.00 am

same as in London..........Surely world class megacities require 24/7 rapid transit capabilities

On a side note I liked Madrids price comparison posters....

Guess which users get fleeced the most!! More than Oslo !!!

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Singapore MRT is superb. I also found the metro system in Seoul to be very efficient

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Guess which users get fleeced the most!! More than Oslo !!!

Need time to think about that ONE..??

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Adding tangent to thread, what is best use of old Metro cars? Could be artificial reefs in the Atlantic for NY Subway or the Isle of Wight line for London Underground. Any other nominations?

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I was thinking, whilst waiting for a northbound Victoria line train at Victoria this morning at 0815, there are not many places in the world where you get a full train almost every minute.

Rich - there are only so many former tube stock that would fit on the Island Line on the Isle of Wight. Interestingly there are talks about introducing them on the Leeds to York via Harrogate line

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They will probably end up on Crossrail..or would you expect new ones?..eh

Also thinking about HS2 but....no ...surely not?

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Now there is a thought, the 378's on the LOR go to Crossrail and old tube stock goes on LOR!!

HS2 must be 142 Pacer's with an extra turbo

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MOSCOW METRO IS THE BEST!

Great frequency (practically every minute or two). Wide network all over Moscow. Cheap flat rate to anywhere (under $1.00USD). Fast. Elegant stations. Historic. Hundreds of kms of track on easy to use colour coded network. Foreigner friendly. Adventurous. It's a tourist attraction. Quicker than driving. Connects to airport trains and intercity/intercountry train stations. You can have friends in any part of Moscow and be able to visit them...and learn about what Muscovites are wearing and reading while you do it.

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For viewers in the UK, a series on The Tube started this evening on BBC2.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01cl522/The_Tube_Weekend/

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Saw that.. interesting but an excuse to LU to justify pay.. waste. I felt sorry for that poor lady cleaner the only one who has to clean up all the mess. Funny to hear that they have to treat high paid working profesionals how to use the barriers and ticket machines like children because the cant use them. I wonder how many of you lot are the same..lol xx

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Went to Leyton Orient vrs Sheffield Weds today and used the tube. Great service, took 1 hour 10 from north London to Leyton. No parking problems, 1 change needed and was not on any platform for longer than 5 minutes. Return journey took same time.

Great service

(and Sheff Weds won 1 - 0!)

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I must admit to being a fan of the Tube. Despite it's imperfections, it transports vast numbers of passengers in safety every day.

Many posters have commented about industrial relations/strikes on the network. This might be of interest:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/rowena-mason/9166138/Boris-Johnson-to-challenge-unions-with-driver-less-trains.html

Pat

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This is fair enough providing Mr Johnson is not able to avoid any legal action resulting from any accidents this leads to. DLR was built to be driverless but the tube was not. I would prefer to see station doors a la Jubilee line before introducing full automation. Once again I see politics taking precedence to passenger interests. I wonder what the relevant safety authorities have to say?

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Paris has recently converted a line to driverless. I don't see that it would result in legal action for any accidents, if the DLR is driverless then it makes no odds. Of course any tube line would have the systems set up for it to operate properly anyway.

Doors are a nice to have but they could be just as a safety issue as not having doors. There are more priorities than doors on the platforms

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I agree there are multiple priorities. I am not saying it will cause accidenta or fatalities just that if they do result then reaponsibility will rest with Mr Johnson and victims and their dependants should be able to sue him personally as well as whatever body is running tbe services at the time. I am just anxious that people take responsibility for their actions. I feel strongly over this following the attempts to avoid responsibility by parties in recent crashes and incidents.

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Like others I think the London Underground system is probably one of the best. The sheer size and scale, daily footfall make it hard to beat ..... Although a favorite of mine would be the Glasgow Subway system for its simplicity and efficiency.

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Though I never used it i cannot help but admire the Shanghai subway for growing so rapidly. The Chinese don't spend years on reviews and inquiries they just do it.

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Madrid. Clean, efficient, and much cheaper than most European alternatives: Just 2 EUR from / to Barajas airport, and only 1 EUR around town.

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Last time I was in London I chose to for go the cars that my company puts on for me to ferry be back and forth (except for travel to T2 at LHR). and instead I topped up my Octopus card and off I went joining the locals on their commute. Amazingly I found that it was 20minutes quicker using the bus and tube. Travelling to T5 is also perfect. So it seems to me that if you can confidently ditch the car the system works. I reiterate what I already mentioned though. Both the tube and Madrid lose a lot because the're not 24/7 operation.

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Last time I was in London I chose to for go the cars that my company puts on for me to ferry be back and forth (except for travel to T2 at LHR). and instead I topped up my Octopus card and off I went joining the locals on their commute. Amazingly I found that it was 20minutes quicker using the bus and tube. Travelling to T5 is also perfect. So it seems to me that if you can confidently ditch the car the system works. I reiterate what I already mentioned though. Both the tube and Madrid lose a lot because the're not 24/7 operation.

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I agree, in these days of desiring to limit pollution and congestion, broadening the hours of activity to dilute the peaks. This requires a 24/7 approach to public transport. Thinking anyone not following 9-5 must pay for taxis is ludicrous. I woul also go back to 24 hr services such as we have seen to brighton and the Waterloo windsor lines in the past.

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Rich writes "I cannot help but admire the Shanghai metro for growing so rapidly."

On the surface it appears impressive but, as with the new Beijing-Shanghai high speed line, questions are being asked about whether the expansion has been too fast for safety.

Last September there was a major crash on the Shanghai metro (line 10) which resulted in hundreds of injuries. Two months previously on the same line, a signal failure caused a train to take a wrong turn.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/28/world/asia/shanghai-subway-accident-injures-hundreds.html

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I think it is fair to question safety in China, they have also had train crashes and the Beijing - Shanghai high speed is currently not so high speed as a result. The UK though, does not have an unblemished safety record on public transport though the Underground has been free of serious events for some time, Kings Cross being the most recent major event I can recall though there have been scares and near misses more recently.
For example in 2009.

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/15251879

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I would agree that the speed of Chinese development might suggest a possible. Slap dash approach to safety. However I would have welcomed a Chinese firm with their own workers to construct our tram system here in 2dinburgh. The whole episode is nothing short of a national disgrace and embarresment. The German company involved should be ashamed of themselves the way they took full advantage for their own profit of incredibley naïve and stupid people on the council. If we had used dragon power I would probably be using a world class system here in the capital. And at a fraction of the price.

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Are they still arguing about trollies in Princes Street?

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Our city buses are regularly voted the best service in the land. The need for the trams were doubtfull. Once the decision was made its just been a cas cow for ourEuropean pals. They have re-started but arguing about the route. And in grand british tradition everytime you pass the workers. Ateast 1/2 just stand watching the other half.

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Yes the Chinese would have got to Stirling by now. But they are nor in the EU so .....

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And it's not just Shanghai's metro which had the accidents ... there have been problems in Beijing too.

At Beijing's Zoo station last year, an escalator suddenly changed direction and threw passengers down the stairwell:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/05/teenager-killed-escalator-accident

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The one and only Tube; The London Underground, I hate how Metro is used when the 1st was used was underground. France's Paris Metro that every seems to use comes from the Budapest and Glasgow where called Metro 1st.

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Tokyo, Moscow and London for me.
- Lived in Tokyo for 6 years so used to ride the Metro system daily... For earthquake proof existence nothing beats them.
- Visited Moscow for a week and was mighty impressed with the punctuality of the metro considering it is one of the largest in the world. Not to mention the Soviet era stations!
- The mother of all metros; The Tube! making a living in London these days and the tube is fantastic. if only somebody could fix the Jubilee Line!

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The Madrid Metro runs from 0600 until 0200 (almost all lines), so hardly a 9 to 5 service as suggested above.

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As I posted earlier, Singapore's MRT suffered from numerous breakdowns towards the end of last year which has damaged its reputation.

Now comes news that the local authorities have instigated a range of measures to help commuters should a breakdown occur in future:

http://www.straitstimes.com/The-Big-Story/The-Big-Story-3/Story/STIStory_796269.html

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After living in London for 6 years, I don't know how I would have survived without the Underground. It was nice though to be able to smoke on the upper deck of the old Routemasters.

Further afield, Seoul has a very user-friendly, spotless system.

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My vote goes to Santiago. As far as I know, it's the only one that has differential pricing by time of the day to try to avoid overcrowding.

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After watching several Korean dramas and movies it seems like the Seoul metro system shuts down completely in the event of heavy rain or typhoons (which happen often within the season). While this seems wise, is it true (I haven't been)?

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When were you last in London Charles? It's been many many years since you could smoke upstairs on the bus. When it was allowed we'd sit at the back on the way back from school sharing an illicit fag or two! Ah, memories.

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If I remember correctly it was banned on Valentine's Day 1991? Memory a bit hazy from my reckless student days. Indeed, fond memories...

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Yes nowadays being in UK is like being in California. Evrywhere s no smoking yet we have the UK government formalizing drug driving. No smoking but tablets, needles and nose candy galore....

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How about the Gautrain. From OR Tambo to downtown Johannesburg. A lot of it is underground and it's very fast and frequent. I'm not saying its necessarily the best in the world but IMO up there in the top 20.

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I would second that. Although the network is limited, it was an easy 1-change journey from O.R. Tambo to hotel in Rosebank, virtually door-to-door. It also runs as far as Pretoria.

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Gautrain is excellent. By SA standards it is very expensive and not within the reach of the average commuter. It is not like most metro type services which are mass transport systems. And the few times I've been on it, there have been as many police as passengers on the train, and on the connecting buses I've often been the only passenger.

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Hong Kong's MTR is a 365 days a year operation as are it's busses and ferries, this says a lot about the service. It is also frequent, excellent value and safe. Oh and then there is the octopus card which is simply genius !
The Tube is ummm well the tube, I will only use it if I have to.
Love the singing singapore lines but I have had a report the cheery 'train is coming train is coming please line up please line up' song has stopped.
The Bangkok sky rail is good.
Only have a vague recolection of the Paris metro but it surely has got to beat Paris taxi drivers.

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In terms of ticket costs and service efficiency, Hong Kong is on the top five global cities in the world. Communters must compare this with like and like and not just some far-flung developing countries.

As HongKongLady said, out Optopus Stored Value Tickets excelled not just to pay for bus/train tickets but can actually be used for purchases in convenience stores and supermarkets as well as paying for passport photos at a public photo-booth! So much so London Underground is naming it's fare card Oyster but I suspect there is a lot of British technology in our advanced underground system.

The Singapore metro was built by the same company which constructed the Hong Kong system but touch woods we are not experiencing the current Singapore break downs!

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May I put in a plea, on grounds of charm, for the Baku metro? Some stations with fine Soviet-era decoration, very polite security (what other police force would help brush dust from your sleeve?), excellent smart-card technology for tickets and a little genuine surprise from the locals at a visitor using their metro. Interestingly, age trumps gender on matters such as who gets a seat - it is a little disconcerting for a white-haired sixty year old Brit to be offered a seat by a young woman.

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