Interesting article.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/fast_track/9672711.stm

Sadly they did not touch on the woeful availability once you actually have the miles you need. The head of loyalty at BA did not come across very well IMHO.

Continues...

In today's market, one needs to manage expectations with regards to rewards bookings. You will not get your first choice and the airlines are not standing in line giving free tickets away.

In the last 2 months I have managed to get at short notice:

Gatwick - MCO - LHR x 2 (Virgin - Y)

BKK - HKG - BKK x 2 (Cathay - J)

LHR - BKK - LHR (QF/BA - J)

Total value close onto £8,000

Are Airmiles worth collecting - Y E S !

Continues...

Each to thier own means to an end I suppose

I booked a reward flight to Thailand in Nov still had to pay 4OOUK Taxes
could have got an etihad flight for a little more. spendt11 hours in A most uncomfortuble seat on a 747 with minimum pitch

Continues...

MartynSinclair, may I ask how much you paid in taxes in fees on that £8000 total value?

Continues...

In November I got two J class MAD - GRU - MAD for travelling with Ibearia in April this year. Paid ca. 140€ in total.

YES, worth collecting!

Continues...

The following taxes were paid, the amount does include all charges to Amex:

1. Gatwick - Orlando and back (economy) - £258.90 per ticket

2. BKK - HKG - BKK (business) - £ 63.22 per ticket

3. LHR - BKK - LHR (business) - £ 525.97 per ticket

Continues...

Yes, it is worth collecting and be selective on redemption:

BA EC Avios
WT+ to CW upgrade is excellent value
Intra-Asia travel on Cathay can be excellent value

M&M
Good availability on LX on business and First
Companion Award possible often

F&B
WebAwards at 50% took me to CUR and back from IAD this past summer

The YQ charge is the downright problem area to me. I really hate when an airline charges YQ on a partner carrier that doesn't do it to own members. LH M&M is one that does on a UA/CO booking whilst neither would to own members.

Continues...

So MartynSinclair on the total of 5 return tickets you said in your earlier post you paid a total of £1170.21 including credit card charges.

While I recognize this is somewhat imprecise, it's still quite a bit, even compared with £8000 value!

Continues...

I agree Binman. Probably understandable in the current environment that airlines are making customers work harder for their miles/freebies, however the guy from BA looked a bit shifty and tried to dress the mutton up as lamb instead of being honest (shame about that shirt as well...).

Continues...

The question is: "is collecting airmiles worth it?"

Take ticket 3 as the example. The cheapest ticket for BKK came out at £1250 I think via Cairo. The BA/QF flight ex-LHR were around mid £3k. So even compared with a revenue ticket, there are massive savings.

My view is that airmiles are worth collecting.

Airmiles are only worthless to people that don't travel.

Continues...

A one word reply - "yes". Enough said.

Continues...

Here is an interesting fact.

I can get 4 people in club world from Europe to Indonesia for under £7000 and get almost 600 tier points for each passenger, not to mention over 100,000 miles.

I can also get 4 people in club to NRT/HND for under £6000 but 240 fewer tier points and fewer miles.

Here is the rub.

I can amazingly also get redemption seats to TYO NRT /HND (though would have to split over two flights and two airports) on my chosen dates.

A Round trip in Club World will costs 240,000 miles using amex 241, (480,000 without) and £2128 in fees!

In other words the fees alone ex LHR are 36% of the ex Europe fare. The mileage fare is flexible the ex Europe is not.

To get to Indonesia (Jakarta only) would add a further 360000 miles and £360 and again the party needs to split, not just over two flights, but travel from HND and NRT.

In this example miles are an utter waste of time and effort, not to say expensive.

On the other hand, 4 x F LHR SFO for £2000 and 300,000 is probably good value as was 4 x F LHR PHX earlier last year.

I have generally looked upon the payment for travel in summer months as not just paying for flights from A2B but have also factored in the transatlantic flights 6 months or a year later. As a result, I have not been too concerned about paying discounted premium fares ex EU.

Now that long range availability is being artificially restricted in favour of MFU at the last minute, I am less inclined to remain loyal to BA even at discounted rates in the longer term.

Shopping around for more competitive fares has meant that deals such as EK ex ATH brings J class travel to SIN/CGK to less than £4000 for 4 and indeed there is a deal with TK till Feb 14 in business class for 999Euro with partner travelling for a 1Euro. For a Family of 4 that means round trip to CGK for under £1700 or the price of single BA ticket!

Continues...

I can't seem to get the link for the TK valentines offer working...do you have one that you could send?

Continues...

Am not of the type to buy from sales just because I have been dupped with XX% off when in reality I didn't really want or need the object or service.
Being internally referenced, am now in a position not to be consumed by status. Am happy to just to shop around for acceptable VFM on the dates I want, as opposed to fretting over how to acquire the most avios, nectar, greenshield points possible, then getting frustrated when I either cannot use them or have to change my plans to use them.

Continues...

Watersz' experience highlights one of the golden rules of redemption in my eyes - never redeem for short-haul or for long-haul economy - its rarely cost-effective and there will often be paid-for alternatives at close to the cost of the taxes or just marginally more. Using miles to upgrade can work really well if your fare conditions allow - EK are great for this - because then there is no additional taxes etc to pay even though the original higher class ticket (ex-UK) would attract the extra charges.

Continues...

TominScotland: I agree with your comment but if you upgrade your travel class out of FRANCE, then you will have to pay the difference.

The French called it Solidarity Tax!!!!!!!

Continues...

When I fly my work usually pays for my ticket in business class, and the routes I most frequently fly on don't offer first class cabins. I find collecting miles is still useful. Even if you don't fly too often, being able to get a few nights hotel stays or a brief car hire for free is a nice perk, even if it isn't the best value way to use your miles.
Before I got promoted high enough at work to get free business travel, I found the main benefit of collecting miles was status - I was usually at least Star Alliance Silver and the free luggage on flights in the USA was a nice perk when flying economy.
I do have to admit that paying large amounts extra in tax, even if only upgrading from economy to premium economy, is far from ideal and makes spending miles on upgrades a lot worse value than you initially realise.

Continues...

For me the answer is definately yes. Without them Mrs T and I would probably not have travelled in higher grade cabins for our holidays or even travelled at all. So collecting is worth it, yes we have had to be selective when we have gone, but as Martyn says the airlines are not giving it away.

Continues...

Absolutely.....the answer is yes!!

I use my TG ROP miles to bring my two sons to BKK every summer, in Business Class, and I also use them to upgrade my seat on the BKK-CDG route about three or four times a year.

Even at short notice I tend to find convenient flights...the TG redemption process is pretty easy, to be honest.

I have no experience with BA as I never set foot on their aircraft...a confirmed SA traveller me............

Continues...

Yes, very much so.

Have used them for many years for family holidays to MFU flights from WTP to Club World on BA.

Continues...

I absolutely agree with other posters that airmiles are worth collecting, I've long been an advocate of FFPs and encourage friends who don't see themselves as frequent flyers to collect them - after all there isn't any cost in collecting them so why not, if you never find a use for them, you're no worse off. I have found over the years though that because of the hike in taxes and charges which you obviously still need to pay on redemption bookings that the ticket prices can mount up on what you think is a 'free flight'. I recall a First class flight with United, SFO to LHR, 6 or 7 years ago costing just £9 plus miles, these days you'll be lucky to see much change from £200!

I am now more inclined to collect hotel points, specifically SPG, as these do seem to offer better rewards which are actually free, no taxes or charges with redemption bookings - I don't tip airmiles into SPG but do use my SPG Amex card for day to day spending instead of my BA one now to earn points in what I see as a more rewarding programme.

Continues...

If anybody does find that they have an excess of airmiles they neither want or have use of, please consider donating all unsued airmiles to the various charities that use them.

Any questions, please ask,

Continues...

Still worth it, but you're right that redemption is hard. Even trying to book a year ahead is next to impossible - at least on the routes I want. And there are plenty of seats available for cash.

Checking last-minute availability reveals a lot of reward seats, so my suspicion is that reward seats are released a week or two before the flight in question. OK if you can drop everything at a moment's notice - not so good if you can't.

Continues...

I can only speak from my experience which is positive as long as you have some degree of flexiblity. My wife and I have flown First to Cape Town, SanFrancisco & Hong Kong, Club World to Boston plus numerous short haul flights in Club Europe. Using Delta miles, I was easily able to book even 3 business class seats to New York and with KLM, we have flown many times around Europe with KLM. Is it worth it, hmmm.... well probably more £100,000 value of tickets for only a few thousand in airport tax. YES, I THINK THAT COULD BE WORTH IT !

Continues...

I am flying with my wife First Class to Boston using a companion voucher on the dates I wanted in February, and with my wife and son Business to Los Angeles in July, albeit on American Airlines, so not impossible.

I looked at the possibilities for Washington at Autumn half term, and no problem there, and lots of availability to the caribbean around that time also

Continues...

ABSOLUTELY YES IF YOU TRAVEL REGULARLY-IF ITS SAME AIRLINE ELITE STATUS HELPS TREMENDOUSLY , EXCELLENT FOR UPGRADES-ITS A FUN GAAME AND I AHVE MILLIONS

Continues...

Quote: "Checking last-minute availability reveals a lot of reward seats, so my suspicion is that reward seats are released a week or two before the flight in question. OK if you can drop everything at a moment's notice - not so good if you can't."

This is what I've discovered. Flights which showed no availability for months suddenly open up T-48 or so, when the airline has figured out that the seats really are going empty after all. So either plan a year in advance or a day in advance. Either is difficult for most of us.

Continues...

I think there would be a far more serious issue if reward bookings could not be obtained at all - 1 year in advance or 1 week in advance.

Yes the miles have been earned, BUT I cant see any airline being too quick to give away tickets effectively costing thousands of pounds.

Not supporting the restricted distribution of reward tickets, but certainly can understand why....

Continues...

There is no doubt that BA have moved to a late release policy designed to offer seats as upgrades to those who have paid for premium seats in J and to a lesser extent in WT+.

A check of almost any route at any time shows seats in M class where the value of miles, especially on long haul is extremely poor.

Now, having complained about the lack of availability, I find myself embarrassed to note that I have just got 4 people booked LHR HKG SIN in First this August.

I had been looking at July but there was nothing and I had checked out NRT HND HKG and SIN and BKK as possible routes. Indonesia was the final destination.

Until a few days ago there was no availability but in the last few days LHR HKG and return in August has opened up significantly and there was a great deal of availability. CX had availability in all classes to SIN CGK BKK etc even DPS had 7 J class available on August 6th, albeit the only day with anything to or from Bali in any class during August.

So I have managed to burn 2 x 241 amex vouchers and for just over 550,000 and £2300 in cash.have secured seats which if leaving from LHR and booked separately would have costs £28300. YQ on BA was over £2000 whilst CX charged £200 for the 4 of us round trip in First HKG SIN.

Was it a good deal? On balance yes, of course, however the YQ fuel surcharge on BA, particularly in light of the variable availability, is now a very real turn off.

Lufthansa could have got us all to SIN in Business for £6000 in their recent sale and BA ex the EU would have been about £800 more. No doubt I could then have upgraded using points for a further £500 or £600.

So the savings now on a business class fare are not that great as YQ and taxes are the same for J as F, give or take a few pounds, and this particularly true when you consider the difficulty with availability at the sort of times I am able to travel.

There is also a significant downside in that 4 silver cards will be lost in the coming 12 months. I reasoned however that status in premium leisure is not that important and BAs attitude to families and status is not that great. My kids for example get the same junk mail as I do and there is no recognition of their individual needs.

I still have over 600,000 points and 2 further amex vouchers valid till the end of 2013. so can still use BA for points travel.

Going forward though, I think the strategy will be to find the best fare deal in J and this might be ex EU on BA but given the LH example possible on others ex LHR. Points and status will not however be a driver unless something drastic is done to YQ on redemption bookings and I do not see that happening anytime soon.

Continues...

Is it me, or has the availability on transatlantic, to US and caribbean, opened up significantly since this thread started.

Better keep complaining, just in case someone actually does read this who has influence!

Continues...

Its all a matter of degree of traveling one does and flexibility
Do it often and have some degree of flexibility and absolutely go on collecting -it works for me

Continues...

Binman62

May I ask how you got so many ba Amex vouchers? I thought you can only get one voucher per annum when you hit the spend threshold of £10k? Or can you earn multiiple vouchers in one year?

Continues...

Olliewb.....I play my cards right.

Both I and mrs Binman have separate bapp cards and last year I kept spending on both under the limit until almost the end of the card year before triggering the vouchers. So two vouchers issued in August valid till aug 13.

I was intending to do same again but miscalculated at Christmas and had 2nd voucher issued valid to dec13.

Mrs b will generate voucher this year and this will need to be fairly soon now to ensure two available allowing us to take advantage of any deals or opening of availability but we won't fly long haul on points again before Christmas.

We spend on these cards almost exclusively and I tend to shop only where amex is taken. In the uk there is still too much resistance but in the USA you can buy a coffee or park the car using an amex card. It all mounts up.

With the vouchers now valid for two years it is possible to have multiple vouchers and you can also use more than 1 on a single booking thus 4 travel. I tend not to do this as it is best to book separately and use vouchers in expiry order.

Continues...

Thanks Binman62, I need to find out the date of my year end "cut off".

I also use my BA Amex for all purchases where possible. I also have a virgin Amex and use this when i have reached the threshold for the ba voucher. I also use the virgin "shop" when purchasing larger ticket items and get miles on both the card and through the shop, it doesn't take long for the miles to add up.

Continues...

Just log in to your AMEX account, and click the link to view your latest statement online --- at the right-hand side of the screen it will detail how much you have spent in your current year, and how much more you need to spend (and by what date) in order to trigger your companion ticket.

Continues...

Hm. I've been using the Amex/Mastercard Air Miles Duo cards up to now. Now they're Avoids, of course. Is the BA Amex card that much better?

Might pop over to the BA site and have a shufti.

Continues...

I suppose the question to ask is how much cheaper would the tickets be if there were no air miles?

Continues...

Double avios on BA purchases make Amex more productive

Continues...